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The Staffroom Podcast S1E13: Person vs. Program

The Staffroom Podcast with Chey and Pav Season 1 Episode 13: Person vs. Program


In Episode 13 of The Staffroom with Chey and Pav, we talk about Person versus the Program, after we observed some very interesting conversations on the same topic on Twitter a few days prior to recording. When changing the culture of a school, based on a need for change, what role plays a more important role? Is it the person leading the charge, or is it programming that is being implemented to garner the wanted change?

Chey and I both agree that it’s a complex weave that exists between the person and the program that creates the best kind of change. We talk about “charisma” playing a big role in getting staff to buy-in to a particular program. The argument of the individual versus the program is very complex – and the two work hand-in-hand. It’s a complex weave that works together to great the perfect, substantial and sustainable program in the school. We need passionate individuals and also valuable programs to be able to implement drastic change in a school.

If a particular strong leader or administrator leaves the school, the program still needs to be able to survive and thrive. Chey relates his understanding of this concept to the math debate. That is, what is more important: problem based learning or learning basic math skills? He emphasizes that there needs to be both in order to have the right balance of learning, even in math programs.

In our latest podcast, we discuss the balance and complex weave between an individual and program.

Chey and I introduce Dustin Staats, of Board Gaming with Education for our “3 Enlightened Minutes” segment. Dustin talks about learning through the use of board games in the classroom, or gamification, and how it can help with student engagement and building classroom culture.

We finish off the episode with our ritual anecdotal story from Chey, and review once more the important idea that it’s very important for strong leaders to be able to lead the charge with regards to change of school culture, but also, the program needs to be worthy of that change as well.

Remember to Inspire, Don’t Require, and be a Humble Servant to the students.

If you’d like to know more about Dustin Staats of Board Gaming for Education, and know more about his Kickstarter campaign, his links are below:

Twitter: @bge_games



Chey and Pav, two experienced middle school teachers from the Greater Toronto Area in Ontario, Canada, take listeners through the in’s and out’s of the field of Teaching, Learning and Leadership. Through their anecdotal, yet often comedic banter, laced with caring insightfulness, they take their audience into a conversation that is surely eye-opening and entertaining, while tackling some of the real, and ever-changing issues that exist in Education. Come join Chey and Pav; partake in the Staff Room chatter that all teachers and educators can connect with.

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